The season 3 advice episode

For the final episode of season 3, Louisa brings you a brief overview of the episodes from this season.

At the end of every episode, the guest gets asked if they have advice for students and early career researchers. In this season finale, you can find all of this advice in one handy place.

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To keep up to date with PsychologiCALL, to find out when the next season is coming out, or if you'd like to be a guest yourself, you can follow Louisa on Twitter @ljthomas1991 and you can find her contact details on her website. 

Transcript

Louisa: 0:00

All right, are we recording? Yes, we are fantastic. Let's go. Hi, everyone. I'm Louisa. I'm a neurodivergent academic at the University of Reading, and I'm your podcast host for season three of psychological. Psychological is a podcast that started during lockdown. And it aims to make an evidence based contribution to conversations about child and adolescent well being, development and learning, and neurodiversity. Today, today's psychological is episode 14 of season three, which is the final episode. And because we've had so much brilliant advice from all of the guests this season, I'm pulling it all together for a special advice episode. So even if developmental psychology isn't your thing, and honestly, why not, you can listen in to this episode and hear some of the fantastic advice from the academics that I got to speak to that season. You can also listen back to some of Sue's previous episodes to hear the advice from those guests too. So without further ado, let's get started. So every single week, I asked my guests if they have advice for students and early career researchers. So we will get started off with a trailer episode where Sue Fletcher Watson, the original host, and wonderful creator of the psychological podcast asked me for my own advice.

Unknown: 1:25

What would be your words of wisdom?

Louisa: 1:29

Well, I guess one of my main things that I would advise people to do is to really set up kind of a supportive network of friends and other people that you're doing your PhD with, very early on, and also helpful for collaboration and things in the future. And if you get stuck with the coding, or something that somebody else knows how to do, it's great to have those people around you so you can help each other. So one of my kind of, I guess, main pieces of advice would be to start very early on kind of setting up a network of people that are excited about similar things. And yeah, because it's useful, supports you if anything gets difficult, it was useful to have a network when the pandemic happened to no one could see each other in person. So that was very useful. PhD network.

Unknown: 2:14

Yeah, absolutely. And I can testify that some of those relationships really, really last, in fact, Holly Joseph was someone I interviewed on the podcast, and she and I shared an office, where we were doing our PhDs. And that's, you know, still a really wonderful friendship and an amazing source of support. And I sometimes think about people working in my field who were sort of doing their PhDs around the same time as me being like, sort of academic siblings, you know, that we've all sort of grown up together or something. And it's, it's such a lovely source of, of comfort when things are tough, and advice when you're stuck and all of those things. So, yeah, strongly second, that advice. That's great, Louisa.

Louisa: 3:05

Here's the advice from the first episode of the season. So this is the advice from Karen McClellan, a postdoctoral researcher at the University of Reading who spoke to me about her work exploring the sensory experiences of autistic adults.

Unknown: 3:20

I mean, I was very lucky with my PhD supervisor, Teresa, who is she's good with the work life balance. And I feel like, to me, that's really important. And I, I guess the most important thing is, for if you're a student, or an adequate research, or at any stage in academia, is to always put your health and well being first and to not feel guilty about it. Because it's really hard to succeed and thrive. You're burning yourself out all the time. So yeah, I feel like I've learned for now working with my amazing rentals, that it's actually okay to say no sometimes and not take everything on. I think that's especially if we're working at home a lot more as we have all done over the last couple of years that that distinction between work and home has been a bit blurred. And that yeah, it's a really, it's good to nurture your your work life balance and to preserve your evenings and weekends and not feel guilty about it.

Louisa: 4:22

Now, from Episode Two, here's Beatrice Hayes from Royal Holloway, who spoke to me about her work exploring children's perceptions of the risks and benefits of social media.

Unknown: 4:33

Don't be hard on yourself, manage your expectations. So, um, you know, I'm talking about this paper today, which I'm very proud of, etc, etc. But, you know, it's taken me 10 years to be at this point in my career. Now, you know, I did my degree. I did my PGCE. I taught for a few years. I then did my PhD, etc, etc. It's a long road, and I think manage expectations in terms of, in the long term, what do you want to achieve as a career, but also in the short term, you know, don't expect to get first and every single assignment that you complete, because actually, that's not what being an academic or that's not what being a researcher is about being a researcher is about coming across problems or coming across issues and being able to troubleshoot those, and being able to look after yourself in the process. So I think if you're early on in your career, if you're whether that means you're a student, or whether you're, whether you're an ECR, whether you're a PhD student, wherever you might be, just manage your expectations. And don't expect to be perfect to every single thing that you do, because it doesn't actually exist, that can't be done. So you know, it's not about being Tip Top amazing at everything you do. It's about having a good work ethic, and it's about being in it for the long haul, you know, it really is a marathon. And just sort of take your time and enjoy the process. As Adele said in an interview recently to the process.

Louisa: 6:09

From episode three, we've got Rachel Nesbitt, a postdoctoral research fellow based in the children and young people's mental health research collaboration at the University of Exeter, and Rachel spoke to me about some work exploring adventurous play in school aged children, here's her advice,

Unknown: 6:25

or so much advice, I would say probably a couple of really important things that perhaps I would have told my younger self. So first of all, surround yourself by supportive people. So people that are at a similar career stage to you, that are going through similar things. And I think that's been even more important in the last 18 months, when often we sort of haven't been in an office environment. So often me and some colleagues from different universities will have things like co working sessions, which is just a moment to check in and support each other. And another thing I would say is, don't be afraid to sort of approach it perhaps senior academics or people that are sort of a bit further on in their career path than you and ask for support or ask for advice. And, and I think that's one thing that I've learned the importance of, of having good mentors and sort of people that are willing to support you. And don't be afraid to ask those questions or make those connections, because they will definitely benefit you in your future and just have the confidence to just send that email.

Louisa: 7:27

Now from episode four, his job I felt from Royal Holloway, and he spoke to me about his work using network analysis to link brain and behaviour.

Unknown: 7:36

I think if I talked to myself, sort of 10 years ago, when I was starting out, I would say, yeah, don't stress too much. Like just enjoy the process. Because with a lot of signs, it's like it's difficult to predict there a lot of things that you can't control. So I think you need to enjoy the process, hang in there and sort of work on your day to day and not worry too much about where things are going or what the outcomes might be, because you're not in control of a lot of things. So yeah, enjoy. Don't worry too much.

Louisa: 8:18

In Episode Five, I spoke to Liz Jones, who did her PhD at Durham University, and we spoke about her work exploring the impact of sensory processing differences for autistic pupils. Here's her advice for students and early career researchers.

Unknown: 8:33

Yes, I think I finished my PhD in September, and I gone to work for the civil service. So I've moved away from academia. And I think my advice would be, you know, explore all your options. Academia is not the only route to go down or feel pressure to go down, have lots, lots of transferable skills, that are really valued in both government and industry as well. So I think definitely be open to lots of different opportunities.

Louisa: 9:03

From episode six, here's Alex Lloyd, a postdoc at UCL who spoke to me about his work on exploration during adolescence. Yeah, I

Unknown: 9:11

mean, I think the bit of advice that I probably would give to, and I think this is quite general advice across the board, but I think it'd be don't be, it'd be, don't be afraid to reach out to researchers that you admire, or want to work with or know more about their work. Because I think it's very easy to think that, you know, you can sort of be the product development as an early career research or, you know, pre PhD in particular, about working with particular supervisors. And, you know, I think that one of the kind of less publicised routes towards doing a PhD is actually reaching out to more senior academics that you really want to work with and saying, I like your work. Do you have a PhD position available? That's how I did it, and it worked out brilliantly for me. So I would, I would encourage anyone that's looking to do a PhD or even a postdoc to reach out to people that, you know, are doing work in a similar field that they really admire and just just really show your interest and ask if there's any positions available because you know, can lead to really fantastic opportunities.

Louisa: 10:04

Next up for Episode Seven, here's the advice from Connor Keating from the University of Birmingham. And he chatted to me about his work investigating facial expression recognition in autistic and non autistic individuals.

Unknown: 10:17

Yeah, so I think probably my number one piece of advice is, but it comes with a caveat. But my number one piece of advice is to say yes to things when you're starting out your undergrad degree or your PhD, because it just opens so many opportunities for you. So whether it be say yes to volunteering or saying yes to being an admin of a journal club role, or saying yes to getting involved in a network or to being involved in a research project, then then I think it's a really good idea because it enriches your whole experience. It also enhances your CV too. So I really recommend that. But the caveat is, you also need to learn when to say no. And that's something I'm working on.

Louisa: 11:00

But my thing at the moment, maybe my my current rule for saying no to things might help you. And maybe people listening as well, I have a rule with myself at the moment that if anybody asks me for additional things, I don't say yes, unless it's something that I would be excited to do in my own time.

Unknown: 11:16

You know what, that is a good sort of mantra to live by. And maybe that's what I need to be doing taking forward. So I think this is a that was a great sort of combination. Now we've got the Yes. And then we've also got how to cope with dealing with it. So not a no or not. So yeah, I love that.

Louisa: 11:34

In episode eight, I spoke to Saloni Krishnan from Royal Holloway. And she spoke to me about her work exploring curiosity driven learning in dyslexia.

Unknown: 11:43

Yeah, I thought a little bit about this, actually, I think I'm gonna touch on like work life balance. So I think in most jobs, you need to work quite hard to be successful. And I would be lying if I said that academia is any exception to that. But I think one of the challenges in academia is that like research and work and sometimes not even feel like work, because we can seek it out because it feels enjoyable, or interesting. And then you can have this like, really harmful narrative build up that, like, you have to do lots and lots of hours of work. And actually, one thing that's been really effective for me ever since I started being a postdoc, is that actively sought out people who work normal hours, who take weekends off, who take breaks, and they're also like, incredibly successful scientists. And I think internalising, some of that has been really, really important. And I guess that's the other thing, like, I think it's really, I think, if you're not enjoying academia, you should ask yourself some questions as to why you're not enjoying academia, just take a step back to see if there's things you could do, because they just think you shouldn't be in a job that you don't enjoy. I think a lot of us in academia is smart enough to find many other rewarding challenging jobs, right. So if there is a phase where you kind of thinking like, I really don't want to do this, then, you know, maybe don't

Louisa: 13:18

just coming on a podcast as a scientist thing, like don't stay in academia. Never say that,

Unknown: 13:24

it's like, you know, perhaps it's a sign that you know, you need a break, you need a holiday, or you need to talk to your PI about creating stuff that it would be more exciting for you. Or, you know, you might think about like creating your happy photo of like emails that have been really lovely to receive through the years and look at, you know, really think about like so. So I went to Sophie Scott's lab after a PhD, where I thought I was feeling pretty burnt out. And in her lab, we just did loads and loads of science communication. And that just really, really degraded like, you know, my passion for science and why I wanted to do it. And I think sometimes you just sort of need that change in pace, but really like, and as far back as like this Christmas, I do not have the solid in any potential way. But I was like really stressed. And then it's just like, but I'm doing this to myself, right? Like, why am I doing this? Can I drop things that I shouldn't be dropping? Or? Yeah, so I think work life balance and reflecting on it is something we could all do better.

Louisa: 14:29

So episode nine was a little bit different. And I had just been very interview me about one of my papers exploring contagion in autistic and non autistic adults. That was one of my PhD papers. Also, stay tuned for the next season, where there will be a little bit of a different format episode there. So stay tuned to find out what that is next time around. So Jasmine, who interviewed me in that episode is a postdoctoral researcher in the inclusion initiative initiative, sorry, at the London School of Economics and here's her advice for students and early career researchers.

Unknown: 15:04

I think that, yeah, if you're a master student, or a PhD student, or even in your first postdoc, like we are, just remind yourself that it's a huge learning experience. And I think when I started my PhD, I assumed that I needed to know everything yesterday. That's not how it works. You know, you have to take time to learn and develop the skills, and figure out what you enjoy and what you don't. And I think that's one thing now going forward in my research, it's something that I always try to remind myself of, and thinking about how best to use your time as well. Um, you know, there's always going to be things that we do and don't enjoy. But I think you find that it's a better use of your time, if they're things that you enjoy, and you're learning from it.

Louisa: 15:58

In Episode 10, I spoke to my postdoc supervisor, Kathy Manning, who is a lecturer at the University of Reading, and she spoke to me about her paper on visual motion processing in dyslexia. Here's our advice.

Unknown: 16:10

I would probably suggest kind of trying to always keep in mind about, like what you are wanting to do for your career. So where do you want to be in the next two, three or five years time? In particular, thinking like, what kind of research would you like to do? What things would you like to apply for, and then to really think about how what you're doing now can kind of help you to get to that point. So I think just sort of keeping an eye on what it is that you really want to do the more long term goals, try and keep those in mind to try and I guess use your time efficiently to try and help yourself get to those kind of career next career stages.

Louisa: 16:49

Next up, in Episode 11, I spoke to Gil Francis, who is a research fellow at the University of York, she spoke to me about some of her work exploring the impact of play based interventions on the mental health of autistic children, and children with developmental language disorder.

Unknown: 17:05

I would say to remember that the journey of learning and doing research is more of a marathon than a sprint. So we need to be patient and kind with ourselves. Research is a tedious process, and it takes many months. And along the way, we it can be disheartening, but once you get to the end of the journey, it's always rewarding to see that you've been able to find out interesting things and that you're making some kind of contribution to knowledge. So definitely. On my for my personal on my personal my personal experience. Becoming a researcher has not been a straightforward journey, I have literally migrated from a Caribbean island, and found myself pursuing a dream that I've always had. And I would definitely want to take this time to encourage other individuals who, who share similar backgrounds as myself, to let them know that academia is accessible. And it's a space where we can actually make a contribution as well. More generally, I'm a big advocate for play. So I would say to definitely find ways to make time for play, whether it is in your research or in your holistic life, because that's important as well.

Louisa: 18:34

In Episode 12, I spoke to Beatrice Lopez, A reader in developmental psychology at the University of Portsmouth, and she chatted to me about an evaluation of a set of employment profiling tools to enhance employment opportunities for autistic people

Unknown: 18:48

seize every opportunity, you have to read, listen and work with colleagues outside of your specific psychological area. Because in our diff ideas tend to come from the integration of knowledge from different fields. And to me, probably the best example is from the autism literature is the application of the concept of theory of mind. That wasn't a concept developed within animal psychology. And Baron Cohen took it to the study of autism. And you know, it changed the film for the next 30 years. And I know theory of mind, the concept now is kind of controversial. But it really kind of is that kind of integration and combination of ideas from different fields that really move a field forward. So go to any talk work with people outside your, your narrow area, I think is really important.

Louisa: 19:46

So finally, for our guest episodes, in Episode 13, I spoke to Ellen Ridley, who is a PhD student in the Centre for Neuro diversity and development at Durham University. Along with my previous guests, Rachel Nesbitt, Ellen was all So involved in setting up the ECR developmental network. In our episode, Elon chatted to me about a piece of her work, which took a cross syndrome approach to exploring social vulnerability and social interaction style in neurodevelopmental conditions.

Unknown: 20:14

There my experience, I would say, definitely collaborate with others both in the academic and non academic sense. So, for example, for me, working with the Williams Syndrome Foundation, from the very early stages of the research all the way through, has really helped shape how I think about things, and how I approach the research and thinking about how findings might be best communicated to families as well. But equally discussions with families and parents, the sort of informal conversations that I was talking about, in the example of the research assistant position that I did, I think that they're just they're so valuable for the thinking to move in your thinking forwards. And that sort of active learning throughout the PhD is really helpful. And then on a more personal level, I guess, I think, the support side of things. So I think a PhD can be quite a lonely venture in some ways. And the first, the recent few years with the pandemic have probably only exact exacerbated that. So I think, really, if you can seek out the support of others, particularly others who are at a similar stage as you. So for example, I've been part of an early career network of developmental researchers. And we've organised a few different things like working together over zoom or running some professional development sessions. And I think just even just having a chat, it's really helpful just to speak to others who are going through similar challenges. And also reach out to more senior academics as well, who can often use mentorship. I think the research journey is more than just ticking the boxes of a PhD. So make space for your own personal development as well.

Louisa: 22:03

All of that fantastic advice has come to a close that brings me to now, the end of Episode 14, and the final episode of season three of psychological. So I'd like to say a big thank you so much to all of the listeners for listening in. And also again, thank you so much to all of my wonderful guests for joining me, I've had a fantastic time. You can listen to all of the episodes from this season on Buzzsprout or in your podcast app. I hope you've enjoyed having me as your host as much as I have enjoyed hosting. And I'll be back soon with news about season four psychological. In the meantime, I'll leave you with some little clips and bloopers that I removed from episodes along the way. And a little cameo from my guinea pig. Speak soon. Bye Just gonna randomly talk for a little bit and apparently do it. This is the part where I forget how to speak in Dublin from Durham University conversations about child and adolescent adolescent who is a postdoctoral teach teaching associate at the university. That's really really, I'm gonna I'm gonna get him a snack and then I'll start otherwise there's just gonna be screaming